ZerosAndOnes

Split Once More – Fully Sick

I’m going to give separating the more techy-businessy content from my blog another try. I hear good things about Medium and my employer is going to start a tech-blog on it as well, so this seems as good a time as any to plunge into the depths.

My Medium profile can be found at: https://medium.com/@jerryjvl (no posts yet)

And my “publication” is at https://medium.com/zeroes-and-ones-all-the-way-down (also no posts yet), and will hopefully move into a sub-domain here soon.

I’m feeling half-fine-half-unsettled-half-bored today. The reason I have found time to set up Medium and write this post is my semi-mystery illness.

As I was driving to my scheduled massage yesterday afternoon, I developed a stomach ache. I didn’t think more of it than I might have had too much of the candy from the new bowl I got gifted at work. A good massage is sufficiently painful that I didn’t notice the pain get worse.

Pins and needles and other sharp things in the abdomen are not fun. Abbey quickly drove me to the doctor as a precautionary measure, and as I was sitting in the waiting room the pain mostly subsided again. The doctor didn’t find anything, but did note I had a temperature and suggested flu. It felt like flu by then.

Home again, sweating on the lounge, extra painkillers before bed.

Then I woke up this morning, all flu-symptoms gone again, but the pain in my abdomen back, albeit less severe. Through the day I’ve had two milder recurrences of the pain, and the best guess currently is that I ate something that didn’t agree with me.

Not what I anticipated for my Friday, and it’ll screw with my weekend too.

But maybe I’ll get some more writing done?

Modest XMAS List

Dear Santa,

I know I am a little late with my list this year, so I hope these wishes do not give you too much trouble in the busy lead-up to the day.

  • Firefly – Season 2 through 4, preferably on BluRay
  • A Reddish Green T-Shirt
  • Paul Erdős’ annotated proof for P≠NP
  • Srinivasa Ramanujan’s annotated proof for P=NP
  • A Pet Dodo
  • A functional time-machine (featuring controls to go both back and forward in time)

I look forward so much to the 25th.

Thanks,

Jerry

YOW Conference – #yow15

I had not been to YOW before myself. In my previous job I had sent my team there though; the timing works out perfectly for a business that tends to be quiet over Christmas and the new year.

I had been to TechEd before, and that was the closest benchmark I had.

YOW definitely wins on a broader scope of topics, and yet not so scattered that it was hard to find a relevant topic in each session timeslot. I have been to TechEd with timeslots reserved for walking the floor, because despite 5-6 sessions running in parallel there wasn’t one that I actually wanted to see.

TechEd wins on the catering front, hands-down. But then, in all the years I went, it never ceased to amaze me how well-oiled the Microsoft conference machine is, and the amount of effort they put into a great show.

Having said that, YOW wins hands-down on cost… it’s kinda the way they pitch their conference – focused on the technology and affordability at the expense of spectacle. I don’t think that’s a bad call, because TechEd was definitely never a trivial sell to management.

And yet… the one point I have a hard time qualifying specifically; YOW doesn’t feel as amenable to making new connections on the floor. During sessions the focus is on the speaker, and during breaks it is on getting some food and finding a place to eat it. Maybe it’s the TechEd lunch set-up around large tables that force you to sit down with strangers that helps? Maybe it’s the social evening of fun they put together (one year: go-kart-racing in the parking garage… yes… seriously) that makes friendly conversations easier to come by. I don’t have a clear answer, but YOW does feel stiffer than TechEd.

Having said that… if you’re just there to learn, the set-up is ideal.

Keynote 1 – It’s Complicated…
Adrian Cockcroft

To my shame, I barely remember the opening keynote.

I hadn’t had coffee yet.
I was trying to work out when I was going to be where.
And then I had 11 sessions and 3 more keynotes with memorable elements.

I think it just displaced (almost) all my memories.

The one thing I recall with clarity is the question how it can be that the most complex piece of technology in existence today is usable by kids as young as 2 years old in a meaningful way; the mobile phone. Something about it’s design is the pixie dust that hides the million things you don’t want to do right now.

Session 1 – Rethinking MVC with React Native & ReactiveCocoa
Ben Teese and Sam Ritchie

I was only superficially familiar with React before this talk, so it probably wasn’t aimed at me. But I still learned a lot about the way React uses it’s Virtual DOM to do delta-updates on-screen, and how that can be made to translate to native apps on mobile devices as well.

I believe Angular 2 is going down a similar path of supporting some kind of Native variant, although I may have just dreamed that. Either way; not quite relevant to me at the moment.

Great talk though, good speakers, especially the groan-worthy punny pictures.

Session 2 – 40 Agile Methods in 40 Minutes
Craig Smith

Spoiler: it’s actually 50+ minutes; the session ran a little too slow to make good on its titular promise. Having said that, it was a very enjoyable whirlwind through a lot of Agile Development approaches (some of which didn’t look anywhere near as Agile as they purported to be).

There were a few slides that specifically piqued my interest, but the pace prevented me from taking notes, so I look forward to the slides getting published. Especially the slide with a book that Craig recommended as providing a good underpinning of why Agile works.

Great talk, and more useful than the frivolous title might lead you to believe.

Keynote 2 – Using Formal Methods to Eliminate Exploitable Bugs
Kathleen Fisher

Oh yes.

Totally this.

It’s been only 17 years or-so since I graduated from University, and at long last the central pillar of the Computing Science program of Eindhoven University of Technology is actually becoming useful.

See ma, my degree has practical applications in the real world!

And apparently, Australia is one of the fore-runners in this field. I don’t want to say it’s because of me, but hey… I’ve been here 17 years now. Coincidence? I think not!

In all seriousness, it is great to see Formal Methods taking their rightful place as a central tool for the development of provably correct software.

Session 3 – Adaptive Security
Aaron Bedra

The key tenet of this talk was: exploit your logs; exploit them for all it’s worth.

Know what your messages mean, count them, and then look for patterns. And then act on those patterns. And start simple, because the business knowledge that produces will lead to requests for more of the same, and before you know it you’ll be tracking and measuring everything.

I couldn’t think of better real-world advice.

Even beyond just security matters.

Session 4 – Production Haskell
Reid Draper

This was by far the greatest disappointment of the conference to me. Based on the excerpt I had hoped to see some samples of practical use of Haskell in a real-world production scenario.

In the end I walked out before the session was over, because I just couldn’t muster the will to look at further tool-chain scripts to build Haskell. That was so not the point I was coming to see.

I’m sure I could figure it out myself, but I wanted to come and be sold on the idea.

Session 5 – Pragmatic Microservices: Whether, When and How to Migrate
Randy Shoup

I slumped through this; not a bad talk, but after a full week of Udi Dahan, there wasn’t really a lot more anyone could tell me about big balls of mud and how to take bites out of them.

I had hoped those nice big open questions in the title would lead to new practical insights, but I think I just kinda zoned out and let my afternoon snack digest.

Not a bad talk, just nothing much in it for me.

Session 6 – Property Based Testing: Shrinking Risk in your Code
Amanda Laucher

This talk felt like a “missing link” between Formal Methods, Unit Testing and .NET Code Contracts. After listening to it all, I like the idea of higher-order tests, and I see how you could leverage them in procedural languages.

But it feels like perhaps it’d be easier to just go Functional, or use Theorem Provers instead of wasting this approach in its pure form on C#. Still, I like the ideas underpinning this way of testing, because as I’ve blogged previously, I’m very unsatisfied with the cost/benefit balance of most of the automated testing I have been exposed to in my working life.

Keynote 3 – Engineering and Exploring the Red Planet
Anita Sengupta and Kamal Oudrhiri

Anita is a great speaker. Kamal was clearly nervous.

Having said that, it’s hard to botch a topic as inherently interesting as trying to land complex and fragile technology on another planet within a very small target area. It’s hard to appreciate how awesome the stuff is that JPL and NASA do without someone explaining all the details that you’d never have thought of.

I secretly suspect there are still a lot of Waterfalls in these places to deal with the careful design required for a release that you don’t get a second chance at. Once it leaves the planet, it better work.

Also, it made me want to go and see The Martian again.

Session 7 – Building Microservice Architectures in Go
Matt Heath

This was actually a very fun Microservices talk. Not as much hands-on Go as I might have hoped, but some very salient points were made. It hadn’t occurred to me before that the combination of a language that statically links everything together with a very lightweight container is immensely powerful for Microservices / Service Oriented Architecture.

I guess he just made a very compelling case for dotnetcore without even realising it.

Also, he was an excellent and engaging speaker. He felt by far the most polished out of the speakers I saw. Having said that,… the thongs were visually incredibly distracting.

Session 8 – Agile is Dead (Long Live Agility)
Dave Thomas (Pragmatic)

And just as I thought thongs would be about as distracting as it could possibly get. Bare feet on stage.

After this talk I feel very self-conscious about my use of the term “Agile” as a short-hand for Agile Development Practices. A very well-put rant against the commercialisation and co-opting of common-sense to extremes where it just stops making sense altogether.

I suspect the fifth agile tenet that he can no longer remember might have been “Pizza over Steak”; that sounds like something a programmer would declare.

I guess the biggest lesson from this session is a cautionary tale; to keep an eye on the practices you follow and to make sure you don’t fall in the trap of trying to buy Silver Bullets. We all love them so much, and we know they don’t exist, but we still buy ’em.

Keynote 4 – Thriving in a Stochastic World
Don Reinertsen

And this one takes the title for “dullest yet most worth taking note of”.

The speaker reminded me of a professor with a slow drone. I’m glad I managed to barely keep my eyes from shutting, because the key thesis on how to exploit the asymmetry of the upside and downside of experimentation in an unpredictable environment is a great lesson for all start-ups. Heck, all technology businesses.

I would have hated to miss that nugget.

The lead-up to it, I could have done without I think. Maybe start closer to that point and then spend more time on concrete examples, and it’d be a much more relatable talk.

Session 9 – Making Hacking Child’s Play
Troy Hunt

This one was a lot of fun. Also terrifying.

For opening gambit: a dumb YouTube video showing a terminal with a clueless teenage voice-over explaining how to DDoS someone with a “ping -t” command, and how it’ll only work if “your network is powerful enough”.

A brilliant feint.

Later in the session, the most terrifying thing ever, an early-teen girl, in her early-teen bedroom, speaking into a laptop webcam selling DDoS services to knock your gaming competitors off the net. And completely serious and real.

We live in a world where the tools to disrupt services on the internet can be wielded by the completely clueless. It’s like a phaser; you just point and hit the button and stuff happens.

Very effective presentation.

And also, we’re all doomed.

Session 10 – DevOps @ Wotif: Making Easy = Right
Alexandra Spillane and Matt Callanan

Another talk that didn’t quite make good on its title, but nevertheless a talk with some interesting points.

Basically, Wotif ended up crawling out of the pit of despair by creating a better deployment story, but rather than using the hard-sell, they developed it alongside their existing deployment path and then let market economy take care of the rest.

“Do you want to go in the release queue, wait weeks, then have your code hit production; all safe and secure, or would you like to use this faster SLIPWay which can turn around your deployment in an hour, but you’ll have to change a few of your assumptions and processes?”

These were the only paired speakers that had put their talk together so that their perspectives complemented each other well. Not flawless, but definitely seamless.

Session 11 – Play in C#
Mads Torgersen

The biggest under-sell of YOW.

The title doesn’t do the content of this session justice by a long stretch.

For warm-up, we walked trough the history of C# (Mads leads the language team at Microsoft), with some miscellaneous barbs and snipes aimed at Georges Saab who did a Java talk before this session.

“C# 1.0, back in 2000, where we introduced value types”, /significant long silent glance to Georges/.

Poking fun was only the secondary purpose of this quick retrospective, because his real purpose was to show the language evolve to where it gained Roslyn. And then he went into a live demo.

He starts up Visual Studio.
He starts a language rule project.
He starts a nested Visual Studio within which the language rule he is developing lives.
He edits the language rule with code-and-resume.

And as he adds this new language rule and it incrementally applies squigglies in the nested VS, and then adds automatic correction options to apply fixes to the code; I want to play with Roslyn so desperately now. It is FxCop on steroids. It is magical. And also a little meta-insanity. But the good kind.

And then to finish he runs through some of the new language feature options on the table for C# 7. Note that hyperlink right there. That’s the GitHub repo where Microsoft keeps the live list of language feature discussions going on for the next version of C#. Microsoft are now not only open-sourcing their framework, but they have also opened up the design process. So have a look around and be part of the discussion!

It sounds like Pattern Matching by types, strong Tuples and non-nullability are strong contenders for features that might be in. But no promises just yet.

I could not have wished for a better closing session, because it sent me into the weekend very energised. I then proceeded not to play with Roslyn for lack of time after my other chores, but I think that flame will burn through a while longer.

My next goal: devise a talk worthy of YOW and get onto the speaker roster.
It is easy to criticise, but much harder to step up and do it.

Feedback is Fun

Feedback was the most exciting part of the day for me today. It was in a meeting and everything, so what could be better?!

If you detect sarcasm there, oddly… you’d be wrong.

Our 12 person leadership team was doing an exercise with a 9-Box Model and our Head of Engineering tasked us to prepare a self-evaluation and feedback for others as well. Our 9-Box classified Leadership Potential along the horizontal axis, and Performance in the role on the vertical axis. It was a bit daunting.

I spent some time Wednesday evening shuffling names around in lists, trying to work out what made sense. I wrote a whole host of notes for the meeting for everyone. And then I didn’t use any of it when push came to shove.

The feedback session was a mix of some different levels of the Org Chart, which was an interesting concept. Listening to Manager Tools teaches one rule about Feedback above all else: “You do not give Feedback to your Boss”. So of course, I proceeded to give constructive feedback to both my boss, and my boss’ boss.

I think the way this session creeps through the eye of the Manager Tools needle is that this was probably not technically feedback in the sense that they use, in that from bottom to top there is no implicit expectation that all feedback must get taken up. Details.

It was fun though, and incredibly constructive.

Giving and taking feedback can be hard, but the more you do it, the easier it gets. It feels uncomfortable because nobody does it enough. It’s the proverbial rusty wheel of management.

For my part, two things stood out (there were other noteworthy items, that need more time to percolate):

  • I have probably not been mingling enough with everyone, shown by the fact most people had trouble finding feedback (and it’s not because I’m perfect already, thanks mom).
  • I make things sound more complicated than they actually are by over-explaining. Although I do suspect that there are times when I don’t explain enough of the intermediate steps of my reasoning as well in my excitement to draw people to the conclusion. I blame Scott from my previous job for just being too damn quick at keeping up with everyone.

The latter point is definitely the harder for me to fix.

When I get questions, my first instinct is to try to explain the full nuance of the subject in one go. Which isn’t helpful. But then… I hate the idea of people falling into pitfalls I could have warned them against.

I guess until we get neural up-links with better bandwidth than a human voice I’ll have to settle for being Mozart, because my skills are definitely not adequate to being Bach.

(If you don’t recognize the Douglas Adams reference in the last paragraph, click through… it’s probably my favourite quote of his… the whooshing deadlines one is seriously overrated).

#PAXAUS – Day 3 – and scene

I’m not sure what it is about conferences.

They make me… want to do things.

Organise, lobby, create.

Today I feel like I wish I could enhance PAX and level it up into it’s next evolution. I’m not sure what that exactly looks like, but it probably involves some moderator training, a slightly broader net of topics, and maybe some workshops. It feels like PAX has a level of energy around it that is worth harnessing… for awesome.

Saturday I felt a pressing need to lobby politicians and try to help activists get their message across. There were so many people at panels passionate about changing pieces of their world, but obviously bewildered about how to go about it.

Friday, I just wanted to start a gaming cafe where people can play games over a meal. But that sounds like a great way to never have time for anything else ever again.

It’s a constant stream of inspiration and puzzle-pieces shifting around in my head.

And there is never enough time to think it all through to conclusions. I’m thinking I should give up some of my TV time in favour of writing time, lest these ideas end up indefinitely detained in the cage inside my brain.

Sadly, all of that is going to have to take a back-seat to my NaNoWriMo now; I have a 30 day deadline, and Tycho signed my messenger-bag with a “Godspeed” when I told him, and now it kinda feels like he is going to haunt me till the end of the month, and possibly beyond if I fail. I have to live up to his well-wish, or I’ll fail on two levels simultaneously.

Also, he has seemed possessed in the comics more of late, and I shouldn’t take any chances.

It was a great time, and I wish there were more of it. Even while it is exhausting. Or perhaps because of.

Thanks PAX, thanks crowd, thanks atmosphere.

And thanks Robert Khoo for picking Australia. That was cool of you.

#PAXAUS – Day 2

I tried to sleep in. I honestly did. But at 9:00am I was awake, despite the best curtains I have ever had in a hotel room. Even at noon, it feels like midnight in here; I had to sneak behind the curtains to confirm that the light bleeding along the edges wasn’t an illusion.

After discovering yesterday that running from session to session is not a great way to spend a day (and missing half of them anyway), I had quite dramatically cut back on my personal schedule.

But I wasn’t going to miss “Penny Arcade – Make a Strip!” even if Mike wasn’t available. Kris Straub was a great fill-in; although his art wasn’t entirely to my tastes as much as Mike’s he was a lot more personable and engaged with the Q&A portion of the event.

I am in awe of how open and vulnerable Jerry Holkins is prepared to make himself. I don’t know if it is partially a well-exercised act, but despite agonising over whether to reveal personal details about himself, he always comes through. He’s not afraid to just be himself. I wonder if that’s the secret sauce that makes the PAX con so great; the fact that it originates from geeks with a great attitude about life.

The Six Rules of PAX should be a model for Tech Cons.

Sometimes,… (often… (always)) his unflappable nature results in a blue tinge to proceedings. Q: “Invent and illustrate a new form of erotica” was Chekhov’ed delicately on the corner of the desk and eventually resulted in some delightful Vesperotica / bat erotica.

It is a delight just to listen to Jerry ad-lib and riff.

Next up, I had a political panel which included two lobbyists and one Scott Ludlam. Hearing him speak always reminds me that a quiet measured voice often garners more attention than a raised voice.

It was an incredibly packed session; the queue snaked around corners, and I think we ended up with slightly more people in the room than there technically should have been. But it’s all good. It is good to see that level of interest in activism; I am taking it as a sign of an interest to do something, rather than thinking it might have seemed an opportunity to roast a politician or perhaps gloat over other politicians not-present.

I have many thoughts on the topic of activism in the general sense. I need to find more time to think them through and write them out. Or do something constructive with them. But for now, the call-to-action I felt compelled to write will have to do.

I spent a brief period in an “Are Gamers Social?” session. As much as I was interested to find there are all kinds of geek spaces starting to show up in all the major cities, I think the panel was a bit un-structured and could have done with a bit more preparation. Or perhaps a better premise than a question with an obvious answer.

I left early.

The session on “Geek Culture/Identity: Exploring the Reality of ‘Fake’ Geeks” had a much better premise, a much better panel and a much better moderator than most of the sessions. I’m wondering if PAX should do more to prepare panel moderators for their duties, because it’s not as easy as just showing up with an idea and some guests.

What is a Fake geek… or what is even a Real geek. The panel didn’t really come to a solid conclusion, other than, almost any topic with passionate adherents could be considered geekery. And I don’t disagree. But then, maybe instead of spending a lot of time on the central question we could have moved on to the answer that everyone is a geek for something, and maybe we should all just pay more attention not to alienate those with geekery that we do not quite understand. In a stereotypical jocks-vs-geeks stand-off, aren’t both sides misunderstanding how similar they really are?

I would love for a panel to explore that point in more depth.

This was the point in the evening where the musical entertainment in the main hall proved more interesting than the sessions I had ticked off on my schedule. I ended up seeing some of the Doubleclicks’ work on-stage, and I enjoyed it greatly… especially their tabletop song was a work of art.

And the Axis of Awesome had a bit of a shaky start with feedback from the speakers, but they had some great bits, and ended incredibly strongly on a whirlwind tour through the musical landscape of the last decade based on a single four-chord progression. Music has never sounded more monotonous to me than it did for the last 5 minutes of their act. And surprisingly, that’s a compliment… I think.

We ended the evening late with a full room for the “Sex & The Modern Geek” session; who would have thought that’d draw a full room.

A great discussion, helped along by some various scholarly and thoughtful input from the panel. I think there was a certain level of discomfort in the room around a few of the topics raised, but overall a great audience. I wish there was more room for topics like this at PAX.

Acceptance comes from understanding. Understanding comes from exposure. Discomfort is part of the process of losing your discomfort.

It was a great session to end the day on.

The realisation there is only one more day left (and one that ends early at 6pm at that) makes me a little sad. There are certain conferences I could spend a great deal more time on if the constraints of life would only permit it. I don’t think I would enjoy every panel on the schedule, but I could certainly fit a few more days in.

Alas, time to rest so I can make the most of the last.

How About a Digital Gaming Revolution, Mr. Turnbull?

PAX is a conference for gamers of all kinds, and geek culture more broadly.

But you wouldn’t have guessed it from the length of the room-overflowing queue leading into the session “Boss Level: Meet the Brains in Charge of the Aussie Games Industry”. The most political session at the conference. Scott Ludlam’s presence on the panel is always a dead give-away.

There were plenty of questions about how to change the status quo, how to make games a more serious part of the Australian economy, how to get taken seriously. And it sounds there is slow progress, but still…

…I feel frustrated on behalf of the panelists when people as “Tell us what we should do?” or “Tell us how we can get meaningful change?” As if permission to act is required. When in reality the best thing everyone can do is to put their best argument in the ear of their local politician. Nothing motivates politicians better than mountains of individual arguments, because they betray a level of passion for the subject.

The dirty little secret of politics is that the less effort you have to take to make your voice heard (copy-paste campaigning, or signature gathering), the more of it you need to carry the same weight as a dozen well-crafted personal messages. Effort counts, not volume. Effort in lobbying translates to effort to get politicians elected (or challenged).

I’m not a citizen. So I don’t get to vote. But I still have an argument to put forward from some simple facts that were incredibly easy to gather from the prompts of several speakers. So here is my bit for the cause.

Globally, the movie industry is worth about $90 billion this year (and climbing).

Globally, the music industry is worth about $27 billion this year (and declining).

Globally, the video games industry is worth about $114 billion this year (and rising rapidly).

Malcolm Turnbull talks a good game in support of the digital economy. Labor has thrown their support behind this message. Getting support for the software industry should be a slam dunk.

And based on current trends, next year the video games industry is going to be larger than the movie and music industries worldwide.

And game development studios have a much more direct path to access the global economy; we already do well in Australia considering the general lack of support the industry gets.

But in light of the numbers above do the movie and music industries get generous support, whilst the games industry gets absolutely none? Success in the latter will be a much bigger factor for the success of the Australian digital media industry than either of the first two.

So…

Time to put money where the mouths are. How about extending some tax incentives into the industries of the future, and set Australia up to punch above its weight internationally?

Now, share this post with someone.

And then make contact with your local politician, and make your own argument why this matters for your career, your economic future, your passion. Because that’s how it is done.

#PAXAUS – Day 1

I bought our tickets many many months ago. I think almost as soon as they became available. They are just too much of a bargain to take risks with how long they will be available.

If you want to ask me “What’s a Pax?” – go over to Penny Arcade, read some comics, and maybe watch a video or two. A PAX is essentially a glorious celebration of amalgamated nerd culture. Over a three day weekend, there are panels on many varied topics, a show floor for PC, console, handheld hardware and games, board games, and many places to play and try a little bit of everything.

All set on the south bank of Melbourne, with all the food, and entertainment, and gas torches.

We’re now at the end of day one, and it just doesn’t feel like there is enough time to get to everything. Too many sessions. I am on average triple-booked throughout the day. I need more time to see all the great cosplaying. I need more time to play all the games.

Or perhaps a better filter. As great as the event is overall, it is not all equally great. I’ve been in two panels that felt a bit under-prepared. Like the host had had a great idea for a session, suggested it, got accepted, and then didn’t do any work to put together a cohesive set of questions and a narrative digging into the material. Which is a shame, because I was looking forward to the sessions on diversity in games.

And although Mike didn’t manage to make it to Australia this year, Jerry (Holkins) is firing on all cylinders like always. I like his words. He puts them in order in the most fantastic way. I need to figure out if there is something I could ask him to sign on my pass. I am leaning towards “A Second Naked Kris Straub” at the moment for reasons I cannot adequately explain outside of the context of the game of Quiplash I witnessed. I could easily listen to him all day.

I had a specific request lined up for Mike as well. Something from First 15 that I thought would go well on a T-shirt, but I will have to forego that privilege for now.

Maybe that was more to assuage my guilt over not knowing what either Mike or Jerry looked like last year, and possibly accidentally snubbing Mike at the pin-trade. Which I have since learned would have been an even more severe snub for the fact that pin-trading came forth from his imagination.

It is a shame that all these cool people gathered here together disperse again in less than 48 hours.

3 days just feels too short.

It’s like… less than 1% of the year. Does that sound like enough to you? It doesn’t to me.